Before the Sea - Shakespeare's Monkeys

Melden Fred Associate, 1848 posts	on May 13 2007 The poem begins too wordily, continues too wordily, then pares down beautifully in the last 3 lines. The sentiments are OK, but this could be made into a very fine write if you could reduce the wordiness of the first 8 lines. Alcuin
Julie herselffrom Here and There 302 posts	inspired from Alcuin of York on May 13 2007 Alcuin of York: Would you walk me through that a bit? To me the first 8 lines are meant to be symbolic of childhood and maternal seperation, and I'm a bit attatched to them (I know - bad habit). What specifically do you think would make it stronger if I pared it down? Maybe the "thoughtless collection" of treasures awaiting? Ah, but how he thoughtlessly grows up running after those treasures, and leaves me watching, and filled with bittersweet. I'm so attatched to it, but I genuinely want to hear more of what you have to say, because I need help stepping out of my own way.
Leanne Hansonfrom Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3708 posts	on May 13 2007 I do agree with Alcuin about the wordiness of the first part, and also the great impact of the last few lines. Here's something of what I'd do with it to render it a bit more concise, perhaps it might help you: He walks away from where he'd been In my arms, my kisses tasting summer in his hair New treasures await his delight; His simple pail a pirate's hoard. He pauses, eyes sweeping the broadness of the sea - A speck before the vastness of worlds, Nexus of adventures unfathomed. Little one, the sea is before you. The sea is within you. The sea seeps from my eyes. Now obviously this is just my rendering and of course it's entirely up to you should you wish to change any of this.
Melden Fred Associate, 1848 posts	on May 14 2007 First, my rendering loosely based on yours: He walks away with me my arms encircling, kissing the summer in his hair. Delight engulfs at treasures – waiting, discovered, picked up and placed in pail. He pauses, staring at the broadness of the sea; his speck before the vastness – worlds, adventures, unimaginable. Little one, the sea is before you. The sea is within you. The sea seeps from my eyes. However, you have to do it YOUR way, as your writing. So let me just point out what I see, working from YOUR rendering. "He walks away from where we’d been,". It is redundant. Of course, we always walk away from where we've been. You might as well have said that you walked toward where you were going. The question is whether the redundancy adds to the write - does it give it a style, improve the cadence, provide emphasis (as in Poe's repetitions in "Ulalume" (or "the sea" in your last 3 lines? I honestly don't think it does. If it adds value to the poem, you could describe what he walked from, but I don't sense that will add anything to the poem except words - not a desirable thing. "Delight overwhelms as he discovers waiting treasures". Actually this isn't a bad line, and it's not necessary to explain whether it overwhelms you, him, or both. I just think the same thought could be expressed in fewer words. That translates into greater impact. By the way, I did forget to compliment the 2nd line. "For just a moment he pauses, looking out over the broadness of the sea –" "For just a moment" can be expressed with far fewer words. "For" is totally unnecessary, and doesn't add to the write. Ditto the other 2 prepositions - out over. I don't want to do more than give you an answer to your query. These are a sampling of what I mean by wordiness. The thoughts are wonderful - IMHO just need to be expressed more crisply. I hope this is helpful to you. Alcuin
Julie herselffrom Here and There 302 posts	inspired from Alcuin of York on May 14 2007 Alcuin of York & Leanne: Thank you both for taking the time to provide that specific feedback and help. It's much clearer now and gives me a lot to work with!
Paradiso, Tracey Associate, 1902 posts	on May 14 2007 I read this late the other night and wept; it went straight to my heart. I can see why you'd be attached to the lines in the beginning, the idea of him walking away on his own from the place you'd been together. I also agree, as Leanne and Alcuin have stated, that the last three lines are powerful...and...I think all the lines leading up to the last three lines could have the same kind of power and magic magic as those last three lines. So I guess I'm saying what's already been said in a different way. Beautiful, Julie. ;)
Stephan Ansteyfrom Lowell, MA Associate, 6232 posts	on May 14 2007 Some really nifty turns of phrase in there, the one that leapt out at me was 'kissing the summer in his hair" ----- stephan
Leanne Hansonfrom Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3708 posts	on May 14 2007 I think you've strengthened this immeasurably. Just beware of inverted syntax as in your opening line "Forever I could hold you" -- it's really no more poetic than saying "I could hold you forever". Lovely!
Paradiso, Tracey Associate, 1902 posts	on May 15 2007 Wow, Julie, well done! There are a few things I keep "hearing" differently as I read this, but they're more style preferences than suggestions that would make this better. I'll share them in case you're interested: I keep reading the first line as "I could hold you forever." Love the second line. I think you could trim the third line a hair: "But a changing wind inspires whim." I'm wondering if there should be a stanza break before the last three lines, as they seem to beg to stand alone. They're powerful, and in a different tone from the preceding lines. They are lines of discovery and blessing following a scene. Finally, beginning each line with a capital letter is jolting to me. But again, that's a total style call. I'm still really moved by this, and it's going to be perfect with the photo you posted.
Julie herselffrom Here and There 302 posts	inspired from Tracey on May 15 2007 Am I embarassing myself with all these stylistic errors and tacky syntax? I'm laughing because I think the last poetry class I took was in 4th grade, and that's pretty much what's stuck in my head! Oh well. Gotta start somewhere.
Leanne Hansonfrom Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3708 posts	inspired from Tracey on May 16 2007 White_Feather: You're not embarrassing yourself at all, at least not in our eyes. It makes us feel useful. Very occasionally a great poet will come up with a work of pure genius that needs only the slightest touch up; every other poem in the universe that's ever been worth reading has been through a very painstaking fine tuning process. The "art" of poetry is the quick bit. Please ask. Nobody knows everything and other people learn just as much from your questions as you do. So far I'd say the consensus is we like what you're doing.
Leanne Hansonfrom Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3708 posts	on May 16 2007 Ach, I'm such a pompous ass. I just read that comment. Ah well. I do mean it, just not with such condescending intent!
Stephan Ansteyfrom Lowell, MA Associate, 6232 posts	on May 16 2007 Ach, I'm such a pompous ass. I just read that comment. Ah well. I do mean it, just not with such condescending intent! You are, but i like you. I find your pompous ass remarks to be incredibly insightful, and useful. I learn more from your throw-away comments than I do almost anyone elses most dilligent criticism. ----- stephan
Julie herselffrom Here and There 302 posts	inspired from Leanne on May 16 2007 I didn't read that with a pompous tone, so no worries. Actually, I've had great fun here the last few days. Wish I had more experience to return the favor and critique everyone else . . . but at this point, it's probably better if I keep to the cheerleading.
Stephan Ansteyfrom Lowell, MA Associate, 6232 posts	inspired from Leanne on May 16 2007 White_Feather: We're thrilled to have you Julie! As far as 'critique' goes -- it is incredibly useful to hear what you like and don't. Even if it's not 'technical' Just offer a 'why' -- that's all. "Love it!" or "Good job!" is a nice 'ego pat' but "I really liked line a, and the use of this word and that word. I didn't like the way line 3 sounded when i read it aloud." -- nothing technical there..but it's incredibly useful to the writer to know what is working. No one, not me, not leanne, not Fred, not Derma, Not Shannon, Not Jen, Not Mandi... no one.. not a single one of us is above questioning. It hurts me when people think they're not good enough to comment... Everyone is good enough, and no one is too good to be criticized. So... jump in! Don't be scared. You are ALREADY an important part of the community. We need you way more than you need us. Wel..maybe not all of us, but i do. ----- stephan
Leanne Hansonfrom Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3708 posts	on May 16 2007 Amen to Stephan. None of us start out with experience, now's as good a time as any to jump in. The more questions you ask about other people's writing, the more you'll learn about your own. It's a weird and wonderful thing. People like you make us happy
Julie herselffrom Here and There 302 posts	inspired from Leanne on May 16 2007 I'll aim toward intelligent cheerleading then. Thanks so much for the warm welcome!
Amanda Bakerfrom Kentucky 287 posts	on May 16 2007 Intelligent cheerleading would be much easier for me if this dang comment box had spell check. I usually have no technical advice to offer,only the feelings and thoughts the poem left me with. And it is hard to do so and appear intelligent when I tend to type in my own language. But I am a rebel like that...lol. I really like the changes you have made to this. It was a very tender and endearing piece to begin with, but by tightening it up a bit your imagery and sentiment really stand out. ----- ...but what do I know?
Paradiso, Tracey Associate, 1902 posts	on May 16 2007 Julie, You're going to kill me. No, really. I'm one of those people who has to SEE a change, and now when I read that first line -- when I see it as I suggested it -- I think it was better YOUR way. It's too soft the way I suggested it. Meh! Mea culpa! I love the way this has evolved. It's an enduring gift to your family and to your readers as well. (Get used to it, you'll now have a growing fan base.)
Julie herselffrom Here and There 302 posts	inspired from Tracey on May 16 2007 Thanks for saying so, Tracey. I think so, too, so I'll switch it back to it's former tacky syntax. I don't know why I liked it better that way, but it had something to do with flow, which still concerns me with this poem. It sounds choppy to me when I read it. Is it possible to have a fan base if you write a poem a year (but only on good years?) I wanted to figure out how to start a discussion topic on where you all draw inspiration from . . . or how to just make yourself write. I'm excellent at finding just about anything else to do (right down to scrubbing the toilets), before I"ll sit and write poetry. I'm reading through the bodies of work here and I'm in awe of not only the talent, but the substantial bodies of work, too! Or maybe that topics already been covered and someone can point me there.