
I must of missed something. People here are saying "foreigners" should not express an opinion about America? Seems like I hear an awful lot of opinions being expressed by Americans about other countries. I think anybody can say whatever they want about anything. We're grown-ups, right?

now, look, i can take everything Alcuin said. (because basically he and I agree on most of that, and disagree on the facts, and I am actually saying much the same as he is though perhaps on a different war) Interestingly,I think most of what Alcuin wrote is equally applicable to the left as the right.
But I'm sorry Derma, i can not abide your suggestion that i am, or ever will be a grownup.
You go too far.
I am not now, nor ever will I be, a grownup. You bastard.
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- stephan

Well, I'm anything but grown-up too. all this brouhaha just surprised me. I am a genuine bastard though. we bastards take pride in that.

I really dont' see it as a brouhaha. I think everyone has been really polite, maybe a bit vigorous. I admire very much those who disagree with me who are respectful and polite -- even if they don't say m uch of anything, or post seperately. I think it's totally fine. There's no harrassment or anything like that. This really isn't a political site, but I don't think we should abandon a whole swatch of thought out of fear of confrontation or disturbance.
If it gets unruly, maybe we just all step back for a bit. But there's no real need to be mean or hateful. WHich by the way, Alcuin's post is thoughtful and nice. I don't agree with it, but I admire it.
So... my fellow bastard... yay! no grownups!
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- stephan

Really what it boils down to is, people need to be able to see that no politician, anywhere in the world, makes a single decision without an agenda. No politician is altruistic. Some of these decisions may benefit millions of people, but you can put your money on the fact that they will benefit one small group of people more than any other. That flow-on is not a bad thing -- but while millions of people get a nice tan from that glorious radiation, someone somewhere is getting skin cancer. And for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Following 9/11, Australia and the UK were the very first nations to back the US in action against terrorist organisations. (Our Prime Minister was actually in Washington DC the day of the bombing, so I'm sure you can guess how quickly he saw the necessity). Nobody (significant) in this country or any other in the Coalition has ever suggested that we don't need to stop terrorist actions -- by EVERY country, including Ireland, please note how much funding the US has poured into the IRA. By the time Bush decided to extend his war in the Middle East to Iraq, we were bound by treaty (long standing and ALWAYS honoured) to support him. We were all well aware that this war was ill-defined and did not follow any kind of "traditional" rules -- but I very much doubt anyone in the world truly believes the war has been handled properly, and the agendas are becoming more and more transparent. Meanwhile we turn a blind eye to the social injustices of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia because they're "good guys". Africa and the South East Asian region are rife with dictatorial regimes and mass genocide -- on a MUCH greater scale than Hussein ever perpetrated. Indonesia is a bloody mess, with the government actively trying to destroy the newly formed nation of East Timor and desperate to hold on to Aceh (where practising Christianity may be punished by death).
The people of the Middle East have been fighting amongst each other for thousands of years. Borders shift with the sands. It's our own modern tradition of keeping borders concrete that is buggering things up -- they'll sort it out. People will die. People will live. Ease the path for people to leave and resettle in other countries -- immigration has got to be less expensive in dollars and lives than maintaining a pointless war that has invited Al Qaeda into a country it did not operate in before we stuck our noses in.
And for God's sake, accept that other nations ARE politically aware. We're saturated with information about the US, and if it's doctored information I'm willing to bet it's no more biased than what you're getting in your own country. Possibly less so.
But most importantly of all, learn to take a joke.

I agree with Ste in that this post has no business being addressed to the "right wing" group. In fact, the original Conservative movement is the closest link we have to the foundation of the country and the documents you quote with so much flair. They were the original radicals and the party that made it their sole effort to keep a government at bay and small.
Now, if you had addressed it to Neo-Conservatives or CowboyPresidents or something of the same ilk, I could rally behind that. Neo-Conservatism is the new Right Wing and Socialism is the new Left Wing, and nothing will bring this country to its knees faster because neither party is checking the boundaries of the government that causes the overthrow of everything true and worth going to war for or anything that we are cemented in.
Talk about shaking a foundation. Sigh.