Making friends with the Italian Consulate in Chicago.

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:44:31 PM To: visti.chicago@esteri.it Subject: URGENT: VISA situation. Please return this message! Standard Header|Full Message View Daniel Ridges

To Whom It May Concern, My name is Daniel Ridges. My family has had an Au Pair, Linsay, from South Africa working for us since August of 2006. An opportunity arose in the past month for her to travel to Milan during the dates of May 25 to May 30, 2007.
She tried to contact the Italian Consulate in Downtown Chicago numerous times, but kept getting referred to the website. She used the function of the website entitled, "Do you need a Visa?" http://www.esteri.it/visti/home_eng.asp She entered her home country (South Africa) and the country of residence (United States of America), and for the choice of why she would be traveling chose "work vacation", because, as she figured, she is working here in the United States, and taking a vacation in Italy. She tried many, MANY times to contact someone in person at the consulate in Chicago to verify what the website said, but was repeatedly referred back to the website. Nowhere on the website does it give a definition of what "work vacation" means.
She was not granted permission to enter Italy, and had to return to the states on the next flight home. As you can imagine, she was devastated. Linsay asked the police officials at the airport in Milan to check the consulate website, so she could explain how she made the decision to travel with what documentation she DID have. They would not grant her that respect.
One of the only people at the airport who did not treat her poorly stated that if there was a mistake made by them, a reimbursement of air fare would be made to Linsay for the inconvenience.
Today, she repeatedly tried throughout the morning to contact someone by telephone, and could not get through. When she finally did, the person who could help her was at lunch.
Please contact me as soon as possible. I would like to know if there was, indeed, a mistake made on the part of the police officials at the airport, and what the procedure is to receive a reimbursement of air fare.
You can reach me at (_) _-_____. I would very much appreciate speaking with a human being.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Sincerely,

Daniel Ridges
Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:44:31 PM To: daniel.ridges@yahoo.com Re: URGENT: VISA situation. Please return this message!
Dear Mr Ridges,
before we call you, it's better to clarify this point:
please go to the website: www.esteri.it/visti click on "English Version" and on "Do you need a visa".
Select "South Africa" for Nationality, "United States of America" for Residence, more or less than 90 days for Duration of Stay and finally "Work Vacations" as Reason for Visit. After you click on "Confirm" that is what you obtain:
" Query Response In the absence of specific agreements between Italy and your country you may not request this type of visa. "
We believe this is quite clear. If she wanted clarifications she could have contacted as also by e-mail or coming in person at our offices. The telephone is not the only option. As you can see you have reached us and you are getting a specific answer. We strongly suggest to verify all the requirements before buying tickets and boarding a plane.
Best regards, Visa Department

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 4:23:19 PM To: daniel.ridges@yahoo.com Re: URGENT: VISA situation. Please return this message!
Dear Mr. Ridges,
as per our telephone conversation, the following is the answer if you put "up to 90 days" in "Duration of Stay": "
Query Response On the basis of the data entered there is no type of visa corresponding to the duration and reason for the stay indicated. Please check that the data entered are correct and repeat your search. " Again, the answer to the query is pretty self-explanatory.
Best regards, Visa Department
From: Daniel Ridges
To: Ufficio Visti - Consolato Generale d'Italia a Chicago Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: URGENT: VISA situation. Please return this message!

Hello again,
First, thank you very much for the prompt reply. Secondly, I apologize for the terseness of the first email, now that I have more of the facts.
It has not been my experience where I would get a quicker reply through email than telephone, so that was an error on my part.
Regardless of my family's experience, I'd like to point out that the message that appears (which you outline in your follow-up response) may be misleading to someone else in the future.
The opportunity came up quickly. Linsay made her travel plans quickly, and read the message as stating that there is not a visa needed for a work vacation. If the same message that appears in the "more than 90 days" choice appears at the "under 90 days" choice, there may be less of a chance of this mistake happening in the future.
Again, I apologize for the nature of my first correspondence.
Sincerely,
Daniel Ridges
From: Ufficio Visti - Consolato Generale d'Italia a Chicago
To: Daniel Ridges Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:48:34 AM
Subject: Re: URGENT: VISA situation. Please return this message!

Dear Sir,
there is no way the following message can be misleading (unless you specifically want it to be that way): "
Query Response
On the basis of the data entered there is no type of visa corresponding to the duration and reason for the stay indicated. Please check that the data entered are correct and repeat your search. "
This clearly means (there is no other interpretation possible) that for the information entered (duration and reason for the stay indicated) it does not exist any visa. As a matter of fact the message continues: "Please check that the data entered are correct and repeat your search. Under no circumstances this sentence can be interpreted as "you do not need a visa". It it extremely clear and we hope to have clarified any doubt about this episode.
Best regards,
Visa Department

From: Daniel Ridges
To: Ufficio Visti - Consolato Generale d'Italia a Chicago Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: URGENT: VISA situation. Please return this message!

Happy Wednesday,

This has been a very emotional experience for our friend, despite her mistake. Seeing her as upset as she was compounded by the fact that I also felt like she was being given the "run-around" by your office, prompted me to write the first email. (My experience with American government agencies has made me cynical, I guess.). I apologized for my behavior in that email because I was wrong. Obviously, you do respond promptly and efficiently, especially when you feel that the person with whom you are corresponding is unequivocally wrong.
In this last email I sent, I was only offering a suggestion that maybe you set up the website so that the same response may come up for both the under 90 day stay and longer than 90 day stay because, despite your detailed response, the message was misinterpreted (albeit, by someone who most likely did specifically want to read it that way).
We'll get over it.
Thank you for your continued attention to this matter.
Sincerely,
Daniel Ridges
From: Ufficio Visti - Consolato Generale d'Italia a Chicago
To: Daniel Ridges Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 5:02:12 PM
Subject: Re: URGENT: VISA situation. Please return this message!
Dear Mr. Ridges,
for your information the database available at www.esteri.it/visti has not been set up by this Consulate General but directly by the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Rome. All the Consulates' wesbites, as for visas, must refer the public to the foresaid database. We do not have control over it. Only Rome can modify it. As per your friends' experience, once again (and we hope for the last time), the result of the query is inequivocable: "
Query Response On the basis of the data entered there is no type of visa corresponding to the duration and reason for the stay indicated. Please check that the data entered are correct and repeat your search. "
It's impossible that such a statement was misinterpreted. It just means that there is no visa on the basis of the information entered. It also tells you to please check if the information entered is correct and to repeat the search. The sentence is so simple and clear that cannot be misinterpreted. Certainly it cannot give applicants the permission to purchase tickets and board on a plane to enter a foreign country without permission (unless, as you say, someone wants to use his/her imagination and fantasy to change it at his/her will, if they want to transform it in their mind in any way they want). At this moment we do not have further information to provide on this matter so we will not answer other e-mails regarding this case.
Best regards, Visa Department
From: Daniel Ridges
To: Ufficio Visti - Consolato Generale d'Italia a Chicago Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: URGENT: VISA situation. Please return this message!
Perhaps if you are more a little more condescending, that would make it more clear.