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More in if art really matters

Discuss: if art really matters

first draft -- this is not about being elitist or arrogant, it is about recognition of greatness and the search for the sublime

1- Julie on Feb. 4 2008

For homework, class, your assignment is to rent and watch "Art School Confidential." (That is, of course, unless you've already seen it. In that case, you get extra credit.)

... it's shiny here in the light!

3- Mosquitobyte on Feb. 4 2008

hmmm, I agree with you on all points bar one, art need not be inspirational, (one could argue against beauty also). Much of my work is written in a manner to elicit the very opposite.

Art needs to be emotive; inspiration is simply what the artless lack.

My humble opinion.

Mos.

 

PS.... Then again, depends on what definition of the root word inspire one applies to the question. Some would say I inspire dread!!! :P

4- Rene' on Feb. 4 2008

clap, clap, clap....I really do agree with you pretty much across the board on this. I do feel that beauty is not the same for everyone though and therein lies the rub! I was actually drawn into this read with your caption and the search for the sublime which is a particular favorite passtime for me. All great art, for me anyway, takes me into the sublime. Then again, the thing that does it for me may well not do it for anyone/everyone else. Still, I thing this deserves applause.... 

----- LIFE: I messed up, can I have a 'do over'?




I am orbiting, I don't know where, but I am orbiting something!

5- Derma Kaput on Feb. 4 2008

Art is about execution, and I don't know how effective an artist's abilities would be without a certain amount of exposure to what came before, and what encompases the quality of what came before.  I live on the outskirts of a thriving community of artists - when I go to coffee shops and restaurants, they're frequently filled with the work of local artists.  Some of it is inspired, some is not.  Henry James, speaking of the art of the novel, once said something to the effect of the novelist (as artist) must have absolute freedom of form (on one hand) but held to only one criteria (on the other): that the output be genuinely interesting.  In other words, the artists ability to make their output genuinely interesting by effective use of craft is the bottom line.  Tastes may vary, but craft, creativity, and the freedom to find an outlet for both, creates great art.  So, I agree with the spirit of your essay - but I think someone could effectively paint flowers on an old chair and create great art.  Likewise, many effort to do the same might be laughable.  Bad art has often times been lauded, for various reasons, within its era of creation, while excellent art has languished.  Time has a way of stripping away the influence of fad and pretense, letting genuine art speak for itself.  The best way to fight your battle is to pick up the brush, pen, or whatever, and seek to create something interesting refined from an informed and inspired practice of creativity itself - then fight off the urges to celebrate mediocrity.

By the way, Art School Confidential is a wonderfully dark and cynical movie.  Well worth seeing.

8- Derma Kaput on Feb. 4 2008

oh, but over time, one age's mediocrity does often fall by the way side.  I see no reason to believe that wouldn't be the case with today's schlock or schlocky tastes.  Also, bad art is frequently representative of culture - not as it wants to be but as it is.  Ideals aren't the end all be all of culture - frequently its a question of whose ideals are being promoted, to the exclusion of others.  And yet regular people just keep on liking what they like, influenced or not.  Culture is life, art is creativity.  They meet in many places and diverge in others.  Its all interesting.  But if you see bad art lauded?  Do just as you're doing now - rant about it.  Share your opinions, create alternatives, laud what you feel is universally good.  Someone else might disagree, then you have a great conversation - depending on temperments.  Here's to good, intense conversations about art.

9- Rene' on Feb. 4 2008

"Share your opinions, create alternatives, laud what you feel is universally good.  Someone else might disagree, then you have a great conversation - depending on temperments.  Here's to good, intense conversations about art. " Derma.

I agree with this so much that I can't even find words for how I feel. Here's to conversation created by differing opinions, by interested minds, and by alternate avenues for individual tastes and likes. How many artists have been ignored in 'their own time' only to be famous now? How much GREAT work has been designated as foolhardy and not worth the while only to be lauded as the ultimate at a later date in history. The continuation for the sublime in every generation is an aquistion that should live on in healthy argument forever!! I love a good disagreement as long as all parties can do so without anger and I never get angry over someones opinion because I realize, 'that I have my own as well' but I love the talk that has been generated over this subject matter. It is stimulating and has given me a learning experience that I would otherwise be deprived of.

I love the difference of opinions on this site and the feeling that we may all express our opinions without hesitation!! 

 

----- LIFE: I messed up, can I have a 'do over'?




I am orbiting, I don't know where, but I am orbiting something!

10- Julie on Feb. 4 2008

(Sigh, I know you're just trying to bait me, but what I actually said was...

" "Beauty" doesn't necessarily mean "pretty." "Inspirational" doesn't have to mean "happy." "


...which is close to what you had up, and not quite as well stated as what you'd posted, but if I'm going to be anal, why not here?)

One of the biggest things I took from Art I in high school with Mrs. Jane Cerilli, was that time was the true test of any work of art. Only in hindsight of a century or more could we know what actually "qualified" as art. I agree that is a pretty solid benchmark for judgment of art... but that we still need to promote and fight for the contemporary artistic endeavors which we feel are worthy of note, to encourage the artist & to better direct & shape the arts as a whole.

...or maybe I'm just talkin' out of my butt.

11- Derma Kaput on Feb. 4 2008

well, that's a mighty intelligent butt you have there Julie.

12- Julie on Feb. 4 2008

*blush* why, thank you, Derma! It must be those ginseng & omega 3 supplements I've been sitting on...

13- Alcuin of York on Feb. 10 2008

Gee Julie, just make sure you don't sit on steroids!

For all, I strongly suggest reading a short book by Tom Wolfe: The Painted Word. It's a non-fiction book about the modern art movement, told by someone with a good knowledge of art & art history. And what Wolfe says applies as well to the art of writing.

Alcuin

14- Celticlion on Apr. 26 2008

I love these questions and this discussion. I am by no means a well educated person. Most everything I know I have learned by self-led learning- that is, I followed my own interests, I went to the library a lot. I asked people who knew more than I a great many questions growing up.I was a real pain in the butt, I'm sure. But if it hadn't been for art- for music, singing, drawing, poetry- all the things I spontaneously pursued with passion-and occassionally had a teacher's encouragement prompting me to continue, I don't believe I would have made it to now with as much positive "self". I won't go into the details but the pure act of creating something, is in opposition to destroying something, obvious, I know. But rather than being destroyed by my environment, or as more commonly happens, internalising and then destroying myself, I became a creator. The secret beauty in being a creator is that you must be in nurturing relationship to that thing you are creating. The big word there is relationship. Being an artist is a delicate and brutal experience of push pulling, of being coldly objective and intensely intimate- it demands you experience, if you show up and participate, every element of relating to another living thing that exists. So, art not only gave me an outlet for survival, it taught me how to be with myself and others. This might seem like total bullshit to somebody but it is my genuine experience. Art matters to me. I write AS IF what I write will matter to someone. If it never does, that's okay. But I'm going to aim high. What the hell. I don't know any better.


Catherine.jpg

15- Mosquitobyte on Apr. 26 2008

Excellently put Celticlion, 'tis pretty much how I approach my drivel also.

Mos