To 'ku or not to 'ku - 5-7-5 discussion

Stephan Ansteyfrom Lowell, MA Associate, 6232 posts	on Jan. 10 2012 Basically, I have no problem with the 5-7-5 convention. I don't mind ignoring it, i don't mind following it. I am a bit more interested in the line-length than specific syllable count, personally, but I respect any way of going about it. I REALLY think seasonal elements are vital. I hate reading 5-7-5 that calls itself haiku that has none of the other elements of haiku, because to me that is the least authentic part of the form.
Laurie Blumfrom Cloud 9 Associate, 2074 posts	on Jan. 10 2012 I am the walrus ku ku kachoo ku ku kachoo Maybe The Beatles were thinking Haiku too?
Laura doomfrom The Divided Queendom Associate, 1336 posts	on Jan. 10 2012 How specific does anyone think the seasonal element should be? Or put another way, how indirect (as opposed to obscure) can it be? Does it need to be related to a specific season, or is an implication by reference to a/the element/s, climate, weather conditions or even the 'atmosphere' of the haiku sufficient to 'comply' with that criterion. That's assuming it's regarded as a prerequisite anyway.
Kedss 25 posts	on Jan. 10 2012 I'm of the mind that I write haiku-like poetry. I try to add a seasonal word, unless its meant to be a senryu or a joke ku. Fer instancem following the Broncos win on Sunday: Big Ben/Tebowed/in OT. Now most people who follow football, understand that this particluar game happened in January, but I wasn't really going for a seasonal thing. I was commenting on life, at least mine. I think I write haiku-like poems, because I don't thing as an English speaker/writer I can really write true ku. the 5-7-5 was our way of Americanizing it and basically removing the Japanese-ness of the form. I'm happy to make my poems as haikuish as I can, but I don't consider what I write to be haiku. I don't mind if people use the 5-7-5 or the free form that I usually use. If I get the A-HA moment of something, it works for me.
Kedss 25 posts	inspired from laura doom on Jan. 10 2012 I think the seasonal can be implied, or you can be as obvious as you wish. But is it necessary? I learned Haiku from some folks who had been doing it a long time, not Japanese writers, but those who probably came closest to emulating the Japanese form, and then had to defend how I wrote the form and gave up after a while, because discussing haiku is like discussing politics or religion. Now I don't care what folks say about how I write my version of the form.
Stephan Ansteyfrom Lowell, MA Associate, 6232 posts	on Jan. 10 2012 I don't buy into the inability of English to emulate the japanese sensibility. I think English haiku can be every bit as elegant and beautiful and meaningful and affective. That said, I think the themes, the 'ahhhh HA!' moment, the soulful quietude of the words is more important than the syllable count. I think the seasonal word isn't usually obvious in English - like that article says, in japanese they have entire lists devoted to defining the season of words - generally playing off of those might be a smart way to prevent some of the worry of obscurity. (I know I'm going to be finding me some of those lists) I approach the seasonal 'problem' by generally trying to include weather, nature, or food items. I usually avoid people in my haiku as well.
Stephan Ansteyfrom Lowell, MA Associate, 6232 posts	inspired from Stephan Anstey on Jan. 10 2012 Stephan Anstey: The use of defending one's work is not about caring what others think, it's ensuring that you've thought about what you're doing. To me, that's the joy of receiving critique -not identifying what i'm going to fix, but ensuring that I consider carefully every choice i made.
Kedss 25 posts	on Jan. 10 2012 I like placing people in my kus because I believe people are a part of nature, not outside it. Its also more fun complaining about or celebrating my life in three lines rather than write a long prose piece. LOL
Kedss 25 posts	inspired from Stephan Anstey on Jan. 10 2012 of course, but if people look at the form more than what is written, what is the point? if you sit there counting to see if they meet/didn't meet a syllable count, then you and possibly the reader have missed the point.
Kedss 25 posts	on Jan. 10 2012 and why does it have to be a haiku? what is wrong with just calling it short form poetry, taking the form basically out of the equation?
Stephan Ansteyfrom Lowell, MA Associate, 6232 posts	inspired from Kedss on Jan. 10 2012 Kedss: It's a choice. You can certainly call it 'short form poetry' - absolutely not a problem at all. However, if you present a poem as a specific form, then you can expect it to be criticized and discussed as such. If an artist doesn't present it as a haiku, then there is no reason for the critics judge its quality as a representation of that form.
Kedss 25 posts	on Jan. 10 2012 :) true enough.
Julie Ann Cook Associate, 741 posts	on Jan. 11 2012 You will appreciate this... My "little" brother gave me my new favorite t shirt for Christmas. it reads: Haikus are easy but sometimes they don't make sense refrigerator I love this shirt because it gives me the chance to "evangelize" about'ku. when someone gets the joke, it gives me an opening to say, "but what's really funny is that that's not a haiku either..." ...I'm SUCH a geek. I enjoy using the 5-7-5 structure to write 'ku, which may or merry not be haiku at all. My priorities change from one verse to another. Sometimes, for me at least, it is just a game. I trend to stick to the 575/353 count if it suits. But I agree that the nature element and ah-ha moment is what actually qualifies a short poem as a haiku. If I ever submitted haiku for publication, the line counts would be the last criteria, not the first, in choosing which to send. As for people, I'm not afraid of using them in a piece: usually that becomes a senryu.
Kedss 25 posts	inspired from Julie Ann Cook on Jan. 11 2012 Stephan, you need a like button for your site Seriously, I like the FB Haiku group because we share kus without really examining their 'kuness'. I think on that group we write our ku in a way that is respectful to the intent of the old masters, but we don't do it in an elitist manner. Don't know if that makes sense, but I've written with people who don't respect the form and get uptight about it. (Nicely said Julie, and I'd love a shirt like that)
Kedss 25 posts	on Jan. 12 2012 'kay, I tried reading a longish article about haiku this morning, and I found that I really don't like reading longish articles about how to write haiku. Stephan, I think it harks back to our discussion about 'art'. I'd rather read a ku or write a ku than read a long article about why the way a lot of people write kus aren't poetic enough....dunno.
Stephan Ansteyfrom Lowell, MA Associate, 6232 posts	inspired from Kedss on Jan. 13 2012 Kedss: I suppose. I just find that I gleen all sorts of nifty little tidbits that wouldn't occur to me if i were just writing.
Kedss 25 posts	on Feb. 3 2012 just thought I'd throw this out there, I did share of my early ku with the writer when I first started, he was very he was very kind http://sites.google.com/site/g...ng-a-haiku-poet this is my favorite sentence: " The most important characteristic of haiku is how it conveys, through implication and suggestion, a moment of keen perception and perhaps insight into nature or human nature. Haiku does not state this insight, however, but implies it."

to 'ku or not to 'ku - 5-7-5 discussion

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