Seduce me - Shakespeare's Monkeys

Stephan Ansteyfrom Lowell, MA Associate, 6232 posts	on June 1 2007 Take a P on Tracey P. So you want me to write you some formed poetry that explains to you why you should write formed poetry? Or you just want the argument, "why formed poetry?" stephan
Paradiso, Tracey Associate, 1902 posts	on June 1 2007 I want you to make me want it. Love it. Lust it. You can do that however you wish.
Jasmine Mann 263 posts	on June 1 2007 For years i'd been toying with the idea of writing in forms, but i just haven't found a form that i love. I understand exactly how you feel, though; free verse is all well and good until everybody starts writing that way. I came up with my own "form" per se, but it is hard to convey everything in it, which is what i find frustrating about forms and then i ultimately go back to free verse. I also hate rhyming. Actually, i should say i hate writing in rhyme simply because i can't do it and i really don't have the time/energy/patience/attention span to learn how to. I don't really have much to add to this thread, except that i'm with Tracey: make me fall in love with form. ----- Well, poop. "Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer." - Arnold
Laurie Blumfrom Cloud 9 Associate, 2074 posts	on June 1 2007 OK here is my idea. Do not be afraid to say no, if it is not a good idea or it is not something others are interested in... I promise my feelings will not be hurt. When Leanne was giving me information on the Sonnet (that I am STILL working on by the way) and because I have had so much trouble getting started writing something... I thought we should have a section on the site called Classroom... Each of the more experienced poets could take a turn, maybe one each month and make an assignment for all the novices to work on and submit/post. As an example from above (although she is not obligated in anyway, but I am using her as an example) Leanne will teach sonnet and explain what the assignment is... say a Shakespearean Sonnet about Springtime and novices can then post what they come up with and the teacher provides guidance about form and meter ( a little less critique about content as that already occurs on our personal pages) I think it would help newer poets learn (or re-learn) forms and would help to push those with 'writer's block' to produce something. Rather like school, where you HAD to do the assignment because you had a deadline. What do you think? Are there enough Experienced poets to take turns teaching? are there enough student poets to make it worthwhile? Or is it just a bad or futile idea?
Stephan Ansteyfrom Lowell, MA Associate, 6232 posts	inspired from Laurie on June 1 2007 Laurie: it is a great idea. I'm just trying to think of how to implement it. ----- stephan
Stephan Ansteyfrom Lowell, MA Associate, 6232 posts	on June 1 2007 I am certainly not the one to make you love forms, but I'll say this -- if you are serious about improving, then you have no choice. It is not reasonable to write poetry without all of the tools. Forms are one of the tools you need in your arsenal. Every idea is not suited to every form. Freeverse is one form. What of blankverse? What of Chokah? What of Tanka? What of the french forms, the italian forms, the english forms? Each of these offers an effect that can multiply the effect of your words upon your audience. Additionally, when one is writing freeverse, if one understands how the forms work, and what they do, one can use components of them, and improve one's freeverse poetry. I am generally offended by phrases like, "Nice flow" as often applied by amateur poets, and I think it's directly due to my immediate sense of their lack of knowledge of poetic tools. When Leanne reads my freeverse, she will not usually directly point at meter, but she will note lines that 'do not work' and often it is due to the metrics of it. The types of sensibilitise her understanding of all the poetic tools brings to her criticism, i think is what makes it so incredibly clear and powerful. If you care about your poetry, then you really have no choice but to practice different forms with some regularity. To do otherwise is a bit of a travesty I think. ----- stephan
Paradiso, Tracey Associate, 1902 posts	on June 1 2007 Laurie, I love your idea though I'm reluctant to ask people who already give so much to give more. Stephan, yes, that's the understanding I'm moving into. It's painful. To paraphrase a topic in another thread here: OMG I'm so stupid!
Laurie Blumfrom Cloud 9 Associate, 2074 posts	on June 1 2007 I know they give a lot of their time to the site.. it was just an idea that came to me. I get over-enthused sometimes. I suppose I will have to try and find something in my community.
Stephan Ansteyfrom Lowell, MA Associate, 6232 posts	inspired from Laurie on June 1 2007 Laurie: Maybe we can make both happen. I think it's a super idea. I also think you're on the right track looking in your community -- that human interaction can't be replaced no matter how good the on-line community is. Real people in a real room reading real poetry is really good. Really. ----- stephan
Leanne Hansonfrom Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3708 posts	on June 1 2007 Ach, Laurie, I'm sonneted out! But then, if I don't have to write anymore myself, sure, I never mind helping other people. You can't study forms without writing them yourself -- or rather, you can, but you'll never understand them. As for seduction -- well. Imagine yards and yards of fine silk floating amorphously through space, the light shining off warp and weft in visual symphony... and then imagine that same silk stitched and shaped into a ballgown whispering across the legs of a beautiful woman. Which is better? I'd say it's impossible to choose -- except that the raw silk contains only the whim of the weaver, whereas the ballgown not only reflects the craftsmanship of the designer but also centuries of tradition and understanding of the elements which will work best together to create a work of art. Many people say form is restricting. If all you're doing is colouring by numbers, then yes, it's restricting -- or rather, you're restricting it yourself. You need to wear the form, direct it as it pleases you, make it your own. It's the difference between off-the-rack and haute couture. Same principle, very different result.
Leanne Hansonfrom Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3708 posts	on June 2 2007 Incidentally, it's not use of forms that makes a "true poet" -- certainly writers of form are no better poets than writers of free verse. I could never advocate form over free verse, however it irritates me no end to see people calling themselves poets without a knowledge and understanding of all aspects of the craft. And it's a craft, not an art. Art is just nonspecific "stuff" -- you use it to infuse your craftwork. A true poet, if such a thing exists, would be one who has mastered many different types of poetry and chooses the best vehicle for his/her work. Nobody with any taste would say that a Louis XIV cabinet is not a work of art, but that same craftsman no doubt once built shoddy tables in his back shed. Just as you can't just pick up a hammer and make that cabinet, you can't just pick up a pen and think you're going to write a masterpiece. But you can learn.
Paradiso, Tracey Associate, 1902 posts	on June 2 2007 The fine silk, the ballgown. Funny you should choose such a metaphor as I've been accompanying a friend of mine as she shops for wedding gowns, so I've been literally surrounded by such softness and imagery. I appreciate every word, Leanne.
Julie herselffrom Here and There 302 posts	on June 2 2007 I adore Laurie's idea, and selfishly hope that something like that can be made manifest here. I'd even pay for it. Real life community rocks, but babysitting is hard to come by!
Leanne Hansonfrom Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3708 posts	on June 2 2007 OK then, has anyone got a form they'd like to try? Even if it's a sonnet... they might look hard but they're just about the easiest form there is, that's why there are millions of them about. But if you've seen a form you want to take a shot at, that's a good place to start. I'm sure we can come up with something.
Julie herselffrom Here and There 302 posts	inspired from Leanne on June 2 2007 Starting easy sounds like a good place to start.
Leanne Hansonfrom Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3708 posts	on June 2 2007 Let's see what we can do about setting up a forum. There'll be a place around here somewhere. And Laurie always has good ideas
Leanne Hansonfrom Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3708 posts	on June 2 2007 OK, try here: http://www.shakespearesmonkeys...ns/view.php/350 or, if Mr Anstey would like it somewhere else, he can tell us where to stick it.
Stephan Ansteyfrom Lowell, MA Associate, 6232 posts	on June 2 2007 it's so seldom people give me the open invitation to tell them where to stick it. ----- stephan
Paradiso, Tracey Associate, 1902 posts	on June 2 2007 I can't tell whether you want to keep that section full of pages devoted strictly to forms, or if we can post requests there. I'll put my first comment here until I hear otherwise. I was really taken by the connachlonn. I like the way it stretched my brain, and want to write more poetry in that form. While writing my first one what I found amazing was that adhering to a form actually helped me better focus my thoughts. It did not take me long to write it at all, as compared with free verse where the options seem limitless, and I have to test them all out. I guess it's safe to say I done been seduced. And, thank you, Leanne.
Leanne Hansonfrom Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3708 posts	on June 2 2007 Focus is exactly what it's about. Focus and discipline -- and when you get used to really thinking about every single word you put down in a form, you'll find it translates into much more disciplined freeverse. I promise you that will happen. I've never known it to fail.
Leanne Hansonfrom Just west of the lounge room Associate, 3708 posts	on June 2 2007 I will set up a spot for suggestions. Bear with me, I have no idea what I'm doing
Paradiso, Tracey Associate, 1902 posts	on June 2 2007 If you have no idea what you're doing, the rest of us are in deep doody. You've got fabulous things cooking. I can smell 'em all the way over here!

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