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Shakespeare's Monkeys

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Regarding Comments on Member Works

Just a reiteration of the iterated
Hey Folks,

This is just meant as a friendly reminder of what we're trying to do here, not a chastisement over any specific problem or person. In fact, if anything there haven't been any problems -- mostly because there just haven't been that many of you.  (Yes, that's a bad thing!)

I want to offer this tiny scrap of advice regarding comments: Before you say, "Loved it!" or "Great job!" ask yourself this question: "WHY?"

Two word ass-pats, backslaps, and attaboys are worse than patronizing and unhelpful, they're actually leading writers down bad paths. They think that because people 'liked it' that means it's 'good' -- which isn't necessarily true.

I understand that some things are objective. Leanne, for example, is a hardass. 100 people might tell me that a poem I wrote was amazing and they loved it, and she might say, "Total dreck. the meter's off, the rhymes are awful, and the theme is cliche -- you really need to think about what you're doing before you waste my time like this."

That doesn't mean she's wrong. It doesn't mean the other 100 are. BUt I'll say this. If I get 100 "great jobs" and then Leanne's comment, i'm going to listen to her. She was specific. She told me WHY it was dreck. She told me the problem areas. She offered support for her assertion.

If you're going to say "Good job" or "Loved it" -- give at least 3 reasons why.

Please.

"It made me feel good" tells me WHY you were reading it. Yes, it will diminish your credibility as a critic, but at least i can respect that as a valid reason, as much as I might dismiss it in my evaluation of the effectiveness of my work.

"It has great flow" .. honestly, means nothing to me. Some people might mean the ideas are coherent and flow together, others might mean it's easy to read. Still others might be talking about the meter. Again, I will dismiss it, but I'll understand where you're coming from and I will appreciate that a hell of a lot more than 'good job'

"I like this 'insert quoted line' line here" -- unsupported with a reason WHY you liked it, it's not very helpful, but it's nice to know. If you like it because the metaphor, the internal rhyme and meter complimenting the theme or symbolizing a greater deeper message.. that's different than.."It's wicked cool!"

"it really took me back to when ...xxx .. happened to me" -- actually, this one i really like. First of all, it gives me specific ideas on how i can focus my words, possibly give me ideas for new poetry, and finally, it shows that there's an element of universeality in the experience.

To sum this all up... Ask and answer the question "WHY" before you say "Good job!"

Comments

1- Derma Kaput on Apr. 6 2007

I now find myself freezing up in the comment department.  performance anxiety, you know?  but I understand what you mean.  I would especially enjoy heated debates in the comment section - because poetry is such a rich topic of discussion, at least among poets.  But little smart-aleck remarks are kind of cool too.  are those still okay?  at least if they're reasonably witty and relevant?

3- Leanne on Apr. 6 2007

My own ass is much softer these days, possibly due to that performance anxiety the Skin Loser mentions -- although it's largely because of a lack of back-and-forth.  I don't see the point in leaving a comment and getting no exchange out of it.  Maybe that's just me needing to be entertained, but a thanks is always nice.  Or even a "sod off you don't know what you're on about". 

Everyone likes to be appreciated, I guess.

4- EmilyRose on Apr. 7 2007

That is where I think the IM's and the general forum is missed. Though debate sometimes got heated, there was debate, and who doesn't love a good exchange of ideas. I miss that. One of the things that this type of atmosphere offers us is the opportunity to hear perspectives from all corners of the earth. That was mind shattering two decades ago. Too have that among poets, writers, well, imo, is a great gift. Again, I miss it.

6- Laurie on Apr. 7 2007

I have been having problems posting from my work PC during the day. And I have always felt  too inexperienced to provide any helpful critiques besides telling someone what I liked about their poem. I will try to do better.

8- Leanne on Apr. 7 2007

What Stephan said.

"Inexperience" is actually a good thing in some cases -- it gives the writer the perspective of someone who's not enormously familiar with reading poetry and so it lets us know how it's received just on first impressions.  We all respond in different ways.  All we're asking is that you do a little analysis on why you've responded (or not) to the poem and put that in your comment. 

It's not just good for the writer, it's good for the reader.  It lets you know what it is about certain poems that grabs you.  And then it's good for the reader's own writing.

So comment how you like, just do it with a bit of thought -- because the more "good job" comments we get without anything else to back it up, the more suspicious we become that people aren't really reading, they're just saying something to keep us happy.

9- Derma Kaput on Apr. 9 2007

"And then it's good for the reader's own writing."

I don't think that can be minimized.  While it's sometimes hard to make an insightful comment, whether of criticism or praise, the process of finding words and a way to make them intelligible is also the process of sharpening your own mind and creative abilities.  I love writing in the context of a forum because I think of it as a means toward becoming a better writer over all, while at the same time hopefully helping someone else who's on the same path.  It makes me think about the process of writing poetry from every angle.  And by thinking about it, then expressing those thoughts, my own ability grows just a little bit more.
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